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Old 10-31-2010, 12:22 PM
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Thog Thog is offline
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Default CG 1000 harness issues

I love my CG 1000 for comfort. It's old school, I had to add a pocket or two, and I've got to put it on and take it off over my head. But it is entirely comfortable which is why I don't want to consider a different harness unless absolutely necessary.

It is designed with a single strap and a back plate that has a sliding mechanism that adjusts by pushing on a foot bar. When going prone, the slider moves back shifting the hang point back. The more you push on the foot bar, the more heads down you go. I think mine is not adjusted correctly because I've had to tie a limiter string through the carabiner down to each shoulder strap. I launched once last year without the limiter string and it was miserable. If I took my hands off the base bar I'd hang almost upside down. The limiter string keeps this from happening.

But the problem is when I unzip to land and pull out my feet, I do not swing upwards automatically. I've got to "walk" my hands up the downtubes to get in the upright landing position. This takes considerable effort, and it is something that I would be afraid to do when in ground effect. Even on the base leg, when I go vertical I can't help but balloon upwards as I try to pull to the upright position. In the vertical position, it is extremely difficult to pull back on the base tubes in order to get enough speed for a controllable landing. Something is not right.

I think, perhaps, the harness may be designed for someone taller than me. It fits great around the middle. I've got everything pulled as tight as it will go (shoulder straps, foot bar) but I am still too "top heavy" because, evidently, I don't have long enough legs to balance out the way I hang, which is why I must use the limiter string.

I wonder if John, Larry(s), Rick, Tom, or some other of you veterans know whether it is possible or advisable to do something to limit how far back the hang strap mechanism slides when going prone? If not, I may need to invest in another harness, as much as I would hate to lose the comfort of this one.
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Old 10-31-2010, 07:51 PM
Paul Farina Paul Farina is offline
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Mark,
The limiter ropes are one idea, but can you put a limiter somewhere on the slider mechanism, instead of using ropes?
Back plate harnesses are very problematic on getting upright for landing. I've had to modify mine to make it easier. It involved drilling, changing hardware, and fabric sewing, so as to allow the slider to move forward up my shoulder blades. This will allow more upright position.
Understand, this will put the harness out of compliance, and could compromise the safety of the design structure.
I would consider a different harness. (no back plate)
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Old 10-31-2010, 08:50 PM
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Larry Ball Larry Ball is offline
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Mark, glad to hear you got some much over due air time.

I had a lot of the same problems when I transitioned to the single point hang system with the back plate. Couldn't get upright enough, ballooning up when trying to "walk up the downtubes" and really bad landings. However, with a lot of advise and even more practice I have been able to smooth the technique out. The emphasis being that I get a lot of practice.

CG 1000 harness have always been notorious for not being very user friendly when it come to landing. I know one person who actually quite flying because they pounded in so hard every time that they were afraid to launch because of their fear of landings.

So I think you should weigh the pros vs the cons.

The CG 1000 type harness be a "little" more comfortable over the period of a 3-4 hr flight, it is a very old design, they are very hard to get upright and it takes a lot of hours of practice to perfect a proper method to have consistently good landings, plus they are very expensive to replace.

On the other hand a modern standard harness (Wills Z5 for example) is "pretty" comfortable over a 3-4 hr flight (ask Larry W), are easy to get upright, which makes landings easier and doesn't require a lot of effort to pull off consistently good landings and they don't cost near as much. I know I haven't been able to talk Larry W out of his Z5 and into a single point/ back plate harness.

I think before I would try to redesign an old out of date harness, I would consider getting a Wills Z5 or a High Energy Tracer. With the limited amount airtime you get a year, I think you would be much happier with a less stressful type of harness.
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Old 11-01-2010, 08:05 AM
John Alden John Alden is offline
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Well I must say my experience with single suspension back plate harnesses vs the Z5 HE type harnesses has been just the opposite. I've found it easier to get upright for landing; no fidling with the angle of dangle line. If it is not easy either the harness isn't adjusted properly, the harness is the wrong size, or the proper technique is not being used. Body position within a single suspension harness is criticle to its proper function. Mark, if you are all the way back in the harness and you still can't get upright, then the harness is the wrong size for you. BTW, Jordan Gianforte has resumed making the CG 1000 harnesses and has admitted to me that perhaps the way Raymond made his harnesses, a CG 1000 clone with an adjustable foot plate, is a better way of positioning the pilot within the harness. I flew that kind of harness for 20+ years and getting upright was automatic. The moyes matrix I now fly requires a different technique to get up right, but the beauty of either design is that the harness allows hasel free rotation to a postion that allows you to fly the glider without holding yourself upright. This allows you to have a better feel of the glider trim speed for proper flaring timing. I'll be happy to work with you on getting the kinks worked out of your present harness or in getting you into another harness.
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Old 11-01-2010, 08:38 PM
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Thanks for the advice Paul, Larry, and John. Sounds like I should work with John to see if adjustments can be made and, if not, start looking for another harness.

I've attached two photos to show how I hang in the harness without the limiter string. In flight configuration my head would be well below the base tube if I didn't hold myself up by doing a continuous push up. It's impossible for me to swing to the upright landing position without grabbing something and pulling up hard. Then the second photo shows how it looks in the upright position.

Mark
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Old 11-02-2010, 06:22 AM
Paul Farina Paul Farina is offline
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Mark,
That harness looks too big for you. Even if you manage to adjust for comfort, and head up/down, you will still have problems getting upright for landings. I've been dealing with this same issue for years, (and getting away with it) but frankly, I'm getting tired of it.

ps. forgot to mention the reason I put up with it- the mosquito is a back plate harness, and if you fly one of these, you will need to learn this technique.

Last edited by Paul Farina; 11-03-2010 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 11-03-2010, 07:26 PM
fdmurphy44 fdmurphy44 is offline
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Mark, it's been a while since I flew that harness but I don't recall having trouble getting upright once I figured it out. As I remember I needed to pull my knees up and deliberately swing myself into the upright position and once there I was in a great position for the landing flare. Been a while though and my memory isn't as good as it used to be! Are you sure that the slide on the back plate isn't binding on something? Paul may bo on to a contributing factor of your problem regarding the size of the harness. It fit me tight around the chest and I am 5'10"tall. The length of the harness seemed perfect but the girth was a problem.
Glad you and the other guys got some air time.
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Old 11-04-2010, 06:53 AM
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Thanks Paul and Frank. There is no binding of the slider mechanism that I can see. It works freely. When I am in the heads down flight configuration and I go to transition to the landing configuration, there is no way I can do it without grabbing the downtubes and pulling myself up. I've tried bending my knees, swinging my arms, and praying...nothing works. Based on the advice you all have given I think I'm too short for the harness. I'll work with John to see if any more adjustment is possible.
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Old 11-04-2010, 08:52 PM
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I just discovered this harness for sale, but I've never heard of the manufacturer: Airware. Any thoughts? The item description says it is for someone of my hieght: 5'8". I've emailed the seller to get more information.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280584667322

Mark
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Old 11-05-2010, 06:43 AM
Ken Willett Ken Willett is offline
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Default try moving CG

Mark,

I looked at your pics. It appears that your body CG is too far forward. Moving aft in the harness should result in bringing your head up in both the prone and upright positions.

It also appears that you can not move further aft in the harness due to the arm pit holes contacting your inner arm. To test this you could put some weight in the foot of the harness and see what happens.


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